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DON'T BUY MARINE BATTERIES BEFORE WATCHING THIS!

what's up everybody my name is Jordan in

case this is the first time you're

watching and learning the lines video my

wife Randy and I are currently one year

in on a two-year refit and electric

conversion of an endeavour 32 sailboat

that we got for free off Craigslist in

2017 now I've already gone over our

whole electric set up in a previous

video so I'm going to put a link to that

video down in the description below if

you're interested in that for today's

video what I'm going to do is go over

what I believe to be the most important

aspect of any electric system on a boat

the house battery bank real quick I just

want to take a brief moment to remind

you to hit that subscribe button down

there these videos take a lot of time

and effort and if you haven't hit it

already doing so will really help us out

so thank you now for legal reasons I

have to mention that we are ambassadors

of battleborn batteries meaning that we

received our battery bank from

battleborn for a discount and in return

we feature them on our videos every now

and then I want to stress that we are

not in any way paid to say positive

things about battleborn batteries our

opinions about the batteries are ours

not theirs so let's get into why you're

here the battery talk so either you're

interested in boats you have a boat or

you're looking to buy a boat in the

future and you might have noticed that

there are tons of different battery

options out there there's different

types of batteries and there's also

different brands so how are you supposed

to know which one is going to be the

best for you hopefully this video can

help shed some light on the different

types of batteries out there as well as

to provide some key things you should be

looking for so you can find the right

battery for your situation and for your

budget in the regular world there are so

many different types of chemistry's and

options and brands out there we're just

gonna be focusing on the marine space

right now and in the marine world two

major chemistry's are currently being

used with a few variations on them these

two major chemistry's are the

tried-and-true lead acid batteries and

the new kid on the block lithium-ion

batteries now for let acid batteries a

few different variations currently exist

those include the wet cell or the

flooded batteries the gel cell batteries

the AGM or the absorbent glass mat

batteries and the new carbon enhanced

lead acid batteries now to my knowledge

the only type of lithium ion battery

approved for marine use is currently the

lithium iron phosphate

this is the only type were going to be

talking about in this video because of

that fact now let's go over some of the

major details including the advantages

and disadvantages of each of these

options also for you guys I'm going to

be putting all the references I use to

get the information for this video in

the description down below in case

you're interested in checking those out

what sells or flooded batteries have a

liquid electrolyte they typically last a

little bit longer than gel so and AGM

batteries when properly maintained

they're also the cheapest per amp hour

battery that's currently available on

the market now that may sound nice but

there are a lot of disadvantages to this

type of battery they have the lowest C

rating of any type of battery that I'm

talking about today meaning you cannot

charge them quickly and you cannot

discharge them quickly or you'll damage

them they also need a more complicated

or more advanced charger so that they

get the proper Equalization charges they

need so that they last as long as they

can because of something called

sulfation they cannot be left in a

partial state of charge they also cannot

be discharged below 50% of their rated

and power capacity so if a battery is

rated at 105 amp hours you really only

have 52 and a half

amp hours of usable power they are also

position sensitive and if they get

submerged they'll release very very

dangerous chlorine gas they need to be

constantly float charged because they

tend to self discharge even when they're

not connected to anything they also need

to be periodically topped off with water

lastly they need good ventilation in

their battery compartment due to the

release of hydrogen gas when charging to

avoid a potential explosion now a

higher-quality wet cell group 31 105 amp

hour 12 volt battery will typically run

you between 200 to 300 dollars although

these batteries are cheap upfront they

really don't offer much in terms of

safety ease of use and performance so

for your house battery bank it's really

my opinion that they should be avoided

at all costs

of simplicity I'm gonna lung gel cells

and AGM Xin together the only real

difference between the two is the

structure of the electrolyte used in

each one but it's not a big enough

difference to compare them separately

these types of batteries have less

electrolyte than wet cells the

electrolyte is held within a high

capillary action architecture between

the plate separators and the plates are

also thinner and closer together all of

this means that the batteries have a

lower internal resistance and thus a

higher C rating meaning that you can

charge these batteries faster and

discharge them faster than their wet

cell counterparts on paper what cell

batteries have a more rugged internal

plate structure which should mean that

they'll last longer but in practice that

rarely ever happens because AGM and gel

cells require less maintenance for

example if a wet cell battery was

allowed to sit at a 50 percent state of

charge for a month you basically ruin

the battery but if he did the same thing

with a gel cell or a GM there wouldn't

be much of an issue

Gel cells and a GM's are sealed meaning

they shouldn't let out toxic gases under

normal circumstances that also means

that you don't have to top them off with

water but they are more sensitive to

overcharging so if you were to

overcharge them you could potentially

pop pressure relief valves causing them

to gas anyway and ruin the battery

equalization charges are not required

for gel cells and AGM s also the voltage

holds up better under heavy load than

with their flooded counterparts they are

not position sensitive they can be

submerged safely and they have a low

rate of self discharge all this

basically means that gel cells and AGMs

are just less fussy then there what cell

counterparts now gel cells and AGMs are

a little more expensive than what sells

the best battery I've seen in this

category is the Lifeline 12-volt Group

31 105 amp hour battery at about $400

MSRP and that's a decent price for what

you get you get about a thousand cycles

if you don't go below 50 percent depth

of discharge oddly I've also found that

other companies don't really make their

cycle life as available for their a GM's

and their gel cells which I found kind

of suspicious but lifeline does so

that's pretty good gel cells and a GM's

are an okay choice for your boat and a

lot of people go with these options but

if you stick with me here you'll see

that they're really not the best option

and they fall short of newer technology

even if you consider price

in the 90s battery manufacturers were

researching ways of improving upon gel

cell and AGM battery technology and just

now in the mid to late 2010s the first

of these products are hitting the market

and are readily available carbon

enhanced lead acid batteries offer less

problems with sulfation which means you

can operate them longer in partial

states of charge you can also discharge

them deeper they typically have a higher

C rating and they have longer life

cycles than their gel cell and AGM

counterparts however they are more

expensive up front the best example of

this type of battery is the Firefly

Oasis series carbon foam AGM and our

friends Kirk and Lauren at the YouTube

channel sailing solely on us installed

these on their tartan 37 and they just

love them so if you're interested in

checking out their channel I'm gonna put

a link to them in the description below

the group thirty-one 12-volt fireflies

offer 116 amp hours at a price of 512

dollars but when you consider you can

discharge them to 80% and not 50% and

that they last longer they're actually

cheaper per kilowatt hour than

traditional gel sells and Ageing m/s in

my opinion if upfront cost is the

biggest issue for you then the Firefly

Oasis carbon foam AGMs are the way to go

but if you can stand to pay more upfront

the best and cheapest option in the long

run is going to be lithium and if that

surprises you stick with me here and

I'll be explained

there are some major advantages of

lithium over most lead acid batteries

the first of which being cycle life now

with lithium you can typically get

between three thousand to five thousand

cycles and that's a lot more than

flooded gel cell or AGMs the carbon

enhanced lead acid they compare a little

more but they still fall short let's

take a look at a cycle life breakdown

table comparing life line AGM Firefly

carbon foam AGM and battleborn lithium

iron phosphate as you can see at 50

percent Firefly compares the battleborn

but when you get into deeper discharges

Firefly falls short while battleborn

lasts longer meaning you get more usable

energy for longer with lithium the next

major advantage is C rating now the

older LED acids don't compare at all to

lithium but the newer carbon foam AGMs

do both Firefly and battle and batteries

carry a C rating of 1 which is really

good that means you can charge and

discharge them up to their amp power

capacity for example if your battery

bank is 300 amp hours that means you've

been charged and discharged your bank at

up to 300 amps however it's not

recommended that you charge that quickly

because fast charging is typically bad

for batteries for instance cell phone

manufacturers typically brag about how

fast you can charge your cell phone but

it's the same feature that kills your

battery life on your phone so quickly

lithium requires no regular maintenance

or equalization charges they're sealed

they don't release any gases when

they're charging they also don't release

gases if they're submerged they're not

position sensitive and the voltage under

heavy load is constant they do not self

discharge so they don't need to be float

charged and lastly they're very safe

lift theme iron phosphate is the most

stable lithium-ion chemistry and

typically each battery has its own

battery management system which keeps it

safe at all times

all in all lithium iron phosphate

doesn't even compare to flooded gel cell

or wet cell batteries it's cheaper in

the long run safer and more capable it

does however compared to the newer

carbon enhanced a GM's but differs in a

few key ways the first is weight now the

Firefly Oasis group 31 116 amp our 12

volt battery is still very heavy at 74

pounds the comparable battleborn group

3100 amp our 12 volt battery is only 31

pounds the second is cycle life at

deeper discharges you still get more

usable power with battleborn batteries

because you can discharge them up to

virtually a hundred percent of their amp

hour capacity rating with no loss to

life the last is upfront versus long run

cost

yes lithium is more expensive upfront

but in the long run per kilowatt-hour

it's actually cheaper let's take a look

at this in more detail the Firefly Oasis

carbon foam a GM's group 31 battery is

rated for 116 amp hours at 12 volts

that's 1.3 9 2 kilowatt hours

they claimed 3,600 cycles at 50% depth

of discharge but only a thousand cycles

at 80% depth of discharge let's use this

80% figure because it represents the

most usable power that you can get from

these batteries 80% of 1.39 2 kilowatt

hours is 1.1 4 kilowatt hours so one

point one four kilowatt hours times a

thousand cycles that's 1114 kilowatt

hours total the price of this battery is

512 dollars so $512 / 1114 is 46 cents

per kilowatt-hour so you're paying 46

cents per kilowatt-hour over the

lifespan of this battery let's compare

that to battleborn lithium iron

phosphate 12-volt group 31 100 amp hour

battery that's 1.2 kilowatt hours total

let's be fair and use 80% depth of

discharge even though you could go to

100% and it wouldn't matter now 80% of

1.2 kilowatt hours is 0.96 kilowatt

hours so 0.96 kilowatt hours times 3,600

80 kilowatt hours total the price of

this battery is 950 dollars so 950

dollars / 2880 kilowatt hours is 33

cents per kilowatt hour

as you can see per kilowatt hour in the

long run lithium is actually cheaper

than even the most technical aaja CLE

advanced LED acid batteries and keep in

mind i only use the lower estimate the

battleborn puts out 4 cycle life in the

real world you can expect between 3,000

to 5,000 cycles so the cost is going to

be even cheaper on top of all that

battleborn

offers a 10 year warranty on their

batteries meaning they stand by their

product and they're guaranteed to last

at least 10 years so you're looking at a

battery for the long run here this

warranty is the main reason we went with

battleborn and not another lithium iron

phosphate brand overall we're extremely

happy with our batteries so far although

we're not currently living aboard we did

live aboard for a year and we really

tried to push the

Arius to the limits to the best that we

could not only do we use our batteries

to push our 15,000 pound boat through

the water we use them to run power tools

to cook food to run our refrigerator and

the rest of the systems on our boat the

batteries combined with our 3000 watt

inverter basically meant that if you can

plug it into a normal household outlet

you can run it on our boat as well you

can't really say that for most boats out

there while we were on the heart we even

tested out running a 5000 BTU air

conditioner and the batteries had no

problems even running an air conditioner

none of what we've done up until this

point would be possible without a bank

full of high quality lithium iron

phosphate batteries like battleborn we

can't wait for the construction of the

home next to the dock that we're renting

for freebie right now to be over because

that'll mean we'll be able to go back to

working on freebie full-time we're

really excited to make progress towards

finishing her and to go cruising again

because part of what was so awesome

about this past year living aboard

freebie was the fact that we basically

designed and built an off-the-grid

system that functioned independently of

fossil fuels and without a generator by

ourselves it was so cool we've already

done things most people can't do on a

boat without a generator and we're so

excited to experiment and try new things

with these batteries and to try to run

new appliances and systems that

typically again people only see them

boats with generators we want to

experiment with things like running a

small marine air conditioner running a

high gallons per hour water maker more

power tools maybe a washer/dryer and let

me know if this sounds completely crazy

but lately I've been thinking about

trying to weld on battery power so just

again let me know if that sounds

completely crazy but that would be

really cool if we could run a small

welder on the boat as well without a

generator anyway if you're interested in

learning more about the batteries we

have on our boat a link to battle when

batteries will be in the description

below that's gonna be it for this video

I know it was a lot of information but I

hope you stuck with me until now even

though there was the obvious lack of

Randy I apologize for that but as always

if you enjoyed the video please leave a

like leave a comment down below

subscribe if you haven't already and hit

that notification bell so you know each

and every time we drop a video see you

guys

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and let it go for so